alarm
Banned User
Posts: 57
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Post by alarm on Jan 19, 2013 18:45:25 GMT
Otters have been re-released in to a habitat that has changed - drastically. When Otters were abundant in years past, the habitat needed to sustain them and the food needed to sustain them was present. Re-releasing an animal in to a much changed habitat that cannot sustain them naturally is fundamentally wrong and is disrespectful to Otters as a species lets not forget who changed the otters habitat in the first place. humans have done their best to cover as much land as possible with houses, roads, and concrete! as for food to sustain the otters, have you taken notice of the amount of muddy puddles that have sprung up over the last 20 years? the environment agency are exactly that. they are there to help maintain the whole environment, not just rivers and fisheries as for the comment about carp tasting muddy, have you ever tried it? they are on sale in various big chain supermarkets and there are countless recipes available online for you to try. instead of griping about people eating the fish that you decide to give a girls name to that happens to live in your particular favourite puddle of mud, remember it was only introduced as food and as far as i'm concerned, anyone who wants to eat carp should be left to enjoy their delicious meal in peace.... including the otters! i'm really looking forward to hearing the environment agency's response to this thread
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Post by Warden on Jan 19, 2013 18:57:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 19:55:34 GMT
Otters have been re-released in to a habitat that has changed - drastically. When Otters were abundant in years past, the habitat needed to sustain them and the food needed to sustain them was present. Re-releasing an animal in to a much changed habitat that cannot sustain them naturally is fundamentally wrong and is disrespectful to Otters as a species lets not forget who changed the otters habitat in the first place. humans have done their best to cover as much land as possible with houses, roads, and concrete! as for food to sustain the otters, have you taken notice of the amount of muddy puddles that have sprung up over the last 20 years? the environment agency are exactly that. they are there to help maintain the whole environment, not just rivers and fisheries as for the comment about carp tasting muddy, have you ever tried it? they are on sale in various big chain supermarkets and there are countless recipes available online for you to try. instead of griping about people eating the fish that you decide to give a girls name to that happens to live in your particular favourite puddle of mud, remember it was only introduced as food and as far as i'm concerned, anyone who wants to eat carp should be left to enjoy their delicious meal in peace.... including the otters! i'm really looking forward to hearing the environment agency's response to this thread Yes and now the Otters are re-released without doing something about the habitat first, without doing something about the eel problem first, without protecting people livelihoods first. All of which are priorities before any animal should have ever been released because you cannot release an animal at the expense of peoples livelihoods etc. Would you support the release of Wolves that is currently being discussed? This is no different - Only difference is, this has already happened I expect my monies paid to the EA to be re-invested in to Fisheries related projects. Why should we pay for other, non angling related projects? Carp are a sport fish that people rely on for livelihoods. Fisheries, Fish Farmers, the Tackle trade etc. There is a much bigger picture here than you are considering in my opinion (Oh and by the way, all this discussion applies to all coarse fish i will hasten to add at this point, because we are not all Carp anglers on here and most fisheries contain mixed species - I myself am an all round angler). . Were these fish not present the re-introduction of the bloody things would have failed! That i can guarantee you An unfenced fishery is like a McDonalds to an Otter. No Coarse fisheries, the Otters would be struggling to take a hold. Otters are a menace - Yesterday i found out they have eaten a number of fish on a local club venue. A place i learnt my trade. A place i caught a lot of my first fish of various species, including Carp. A place that claims several of my PB's. A place i caught my first double. A place i caught my first 20. A place i caught my second 20. A place i love with all my heart like it is my own. A place i will not see ruined by Otters. Eating farmed Carp bred for the table is a different thing altogether and that i fully support.
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Post by drunkenmaster76 on Jan 19, 2013 20:18:48 GMT
Gents - this Alarm fella would appear to be the same guy whom posts as Mr Nobody on the Leeds DASA forum. So Warden you are correct with your statement about Antis out there.
I do no accuse someone lightly, so please hear me out. Mr Nobody tends to post quite extreme and wacky anti fishing posts on DASA - usually coinciding with I'm guessing a Friday night drink session as his posts are less than coherent. If you check his previous posts on here, he/she has started a little more subtley, but you will see they are usually a little antagonistic e.g. How he left a lure stuck in a pikes mouth. How he'd like to eat pike and carp. His/her mistake was to put the giving carp girls names statement - which he has used on DASA.
Again I don't give out accusations easily, but I firmly believe it is the same character. Not much point in banning as will only change name, but I just wanted to warn you that this moron will no doubt try to muddy the debate with their misconceived ramblings.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:24:08 GMT
Well, if any of our Moderators know any of the Leeds DASA moderators it would be all too easy to find out
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Post by drunkenmaster76 on Jan 19, 2013 20:30:29 GMT
I have nothing to gain from this. As you have probably gathered I have some sympathy for otters, but I have little time for morons. He has not added one constructive thing to this forum since he joined and he tripped himself up by getting a little too angry and let slip with one of his old lines.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:39:09 GMT
I have nothing to gain from this. As you have probably gathered I have some sympathy for otters, but I have little time for morons. He has not added one constructive thing to this forum since he joined and he tripped himself up by getting a little too angry and let slip with one of his old lines. None of us have any reason to doubt you mate and i suspect that if the Moderators of both forums were in a position to confer, you would get confirmation simply from a user I.P. Also, any other members on here that frequent that forum may have also seen the same as you - that would not surprise me either. We all have different opinions as anglers, but non anglers who are against our sport is something we should all agree we do not want i should imagine.
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Post by angellus72 on Jan 19, 2013 20:41:52 GMT
He has not added one constructive thing to this forum since he joined and he tripped himself up by getting a little too angry and let slip with one of his old lines. Not entirely true, he did wish a Happy Birthday some time ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:45:39 GMT
He has not added one constructive thing to this forum since he joined and he tripped himself up by getting a little too angry and let slip with one of his old lines. Not entirely true, he did wish a Happy Birthday some time ago. LOL
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Post by drunkenmaster76 on Jan 19, 2013 21:46:42 GMT
He has not added one constructive thing to this forum since he joined and he tripped himself up by getting a little too angry and let slip with one of his old lines. Not entirely true, he did wish a Happy Birthday some time ago. Even a broken clock is right twice a day
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Post by Eyghon on Jan 20, 2013 0:48:08 GMT
Looking at Alarms posts over at Leeds DSA Forum (http://leedsdasa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=userrecentposts&user=knowbody) he clearly likes to Troll so don't feed him and he will probably move on. If he carries on posting here the way he has on LDSA he won't be here long anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 1:15:59 GMT
Looking at Alarms posts over at Leeds DSA Forum (http://leedsdasa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=userrecentposts&user=knowbody) he clearly likes to Troll so don't feed him and he will probably move on. If he carries on posting here the way he has on LDSA he won't be here long anyway. In retrospect.... hook line and sinker ;D
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Post by spooner on Jan 20, 2013 19:05:38 GMT
never understood why I have to pay the EA a license fee each year, when all I fish is private waters were the owners have invested there own time and money to provide us anglers with somewhere to wet a line. Why sould the E.A make money from this ??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 19:24:49 GMT
I agree mate. The money we pay just goes in to the EA's general pot and has no guarantee of being re-invested in to Fisheries and Angling.
It's just the Government's way of having 'control' and making some money of another group of people, in this instant anglers, via a scapegoat in the form of the EA.
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Post by ilikefishing on Jan 20, 2013 20:27:24 GMT
I agree mate. The money we pay just goes in to the EA's general pot and has no guarantee of being re-invested in to Fisheries and Angling. It's just the Government's way of having 'control' and making some money of another group of people, in this instant anglers, via a scapegoat in the form of the EA. Ha ha funny that about criticising the government when the majority don't even bother to vote. They deserve what they get!!!
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alarm
Banned User
Posts: 57
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Post by alarm on Jan 20, 2013 21:37:38 GMT
I agree mate. The money we pay just goes in to the EA's general pot and has no guarantee of being re-invested in to Fisheries and Angling. It's just the Government's way of having 'control' and making some money of another group of people, in this instant anglers, via a scapegoat in the form of the EA. Ha ha funny that about criticising the government when the majority don't even bother to vote. They deserve what they get!!! warden put a post up relating to this very subject. lets not forget that it's called the "environment" agency, not the "fishing" agency! if you don't agree with what the environment agency does, then don't pay for your licence. why not join the angling trust instead. that way, you can support a cause that supports fishing and you stop funding the reintroduction of otters
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Post by binner on Jan 20, 2013 21:49:51 GMT
so if you join the angling trust you dont need a licence to fish
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alarm
Banned User
Posts: 57
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Post by alarm on Jan 20, 2013 22:02:00 GMT
so if you join the angling trust you dont need a licence to fish NO! but at least you support an organisation that just supports fishing! lets be honest, from what i've read on here about the lack of bailifs, there's almost zero chance of being caught. put your money into an organisation that best suits your needs. that's why i buy my EA licence as i DO support the re-introduction of otters
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Post by drunkenmaster76 on Jan 20, 2013 22:10:44 GMT
Very good. Hope that works out for you
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Post by ilikefishing on Jan 20, 2013 22:15:16 GMT
Alan -you seem to be a real intellectual- the country needs clear thinkers like you!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 22:19:38 GMT
It's not often i'm lost for words............. but............
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Post by ilikefishing on Jan 20, 2013 22:21:26 GMT
ooops missed this off the end if you needed it! i·ro·ny 1 [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Show IPA noun, plural i·ro·nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
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alarm
Banned User
Posts: 57
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Post by alarm on Jan 20, 2013 22:59:04 GMT
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Attachments:
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Post by Warden on Jan 21, 2013 12:20:08 GMT
Sorry I made a bit of a mess of composing this reply but I think you will get the Gist! Spooner said"never understood why I have to pay the EA a license fee each year, when all I fish is private waters were the owners have invested there own time and money to provide us anglers with somewhere to wet a line. Why sould the E.A make money from this ??" I agree mate. The money we pay just goes in to the EA's general pot and has no guarantee of being re-invested in to Fisheries and Angling. It's just the Government's way of having 'control' and making some money of another group of people, in this instant anglers, via a scapegoat in the form of the EA. As far as I know all the monies that come from our licenses are ploughed back into fishing + a lot more that the EA get from other sources environment-agency.resultspage.com/search?p=R&srid=S8-UKSR01&lbc=environment-agency&w=where%20does%20our%20fishing%20license%20money%20go&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3dayUqySi97FU%26feature%3dyoutube_gdata_player&rk=1&uid=577371064&sid=15&ts=ev2&rsc=xHQsImw9D:lfKoAg&method=or&isort=scoreI know we as a club have had a considerable amount of financial help from them to pay for the training of our coaches and were a big help in us getting a grant to do our venues up,If we have a problem we ring them and they are there very quickly (I think its over 90% of call outs are from commercials or still waters)so the money is spent on everybody,i could name half a dozen clubs in our area that have had money from them,and we like every other water will get help if we have a fish health problem so every angler needs a license.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2013 13:35:06 GMT
That is great to hear - however a lot of people regularly complain to the contrary in that they have applied for help from the EA and none has been forthcoming. (What truth there is in what a lot of people say is open to debate, but i doubt it is possible to help everyone - afterall the money only goes so far). I suspect there are some areas, where help is more readily available than others to be honest and different factors would effect that. Such as how many fisheries there are in a given catchment, how many staff the EA have in that area, how much essential work they have had to carry out before seeing to helping fisheries etc etc. I just can't get my head around how in one hand you have the EA stating all that they do and all that they can do and then in the other hand, you have the EA that has contributed to the release of an apex predator in to an environment that cannot sustain them without seeing to satisfactory mitigation first to avoid the destruction of peoples livelihoods, which ironically is now costing them money anyway helping where they can So i just don't get why help with keeping Otters out was not offered to those who wanted it initially Anyway, i pay my license and always have because it is a legal requirement, nothing more really.
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Post by Warden on Jan 21, 2013 14:11:39 GMT
so do I. I agree with you about the validity of complaints ,if there is one thing anglers do well its moan, I suspect it gets very complicated who to help out financially when a lot of fisheries are businesses who frankly ignore what the EA advises regarding fish stocking levels then expects help when it all go's belly up. we as a club use our finances to promote fishing in our area I suspect that makes us a better proposition than a commercial?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2013 14:26:50 GMT
we as a club use our finances to promote fishing in our area I suspect that makes us a better proposition than a commercial? Possibly - however i have to say i believe in a level playing field (That said, ideal world and all that).
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Post by Dirtyboy on Jan 24, 2013 13:09:21 GMT
Take from another thread about is the EA value for money
Legal status
Otters are currently increasing in number and distribution after a prolonged period of decline. They receive protection under both the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981external link (as amended) and The Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2010external link. Otters and their resting places are fully protected, it is an offence to deliberately, capture, injure or kill them or to damage, destroy or obstruct their breeding or resting places. It is also an offence to disturb otters in their breeding or resting places.
There is, however, provision within the legislation to kill, take, disturb or possess otters or to use prohibited methods to kill or take under a licence in certain defined circumstances, if the issue cannot be resolved by any alternative means.
Natural England Wildlife Management and Licensing administers licence applications for the following purposes:
science, education or conservation, ringing or marking the protection of a zoological collection
preventing serious damage to livestock, food for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, or any other form of property or to fisheries
preventing the spread of disease
preserving public health or public safety or other imperative reasons of overriding public interest (such as development)
possession of species or derivatives (Note: some possession situations can be covered under general licences)
I cant see why he is suing the EA when it should be natural England he should be suing as they have realeased the things in the first place. The EA is there to protect our fish stock habitat and waterways the otter possess a massive threat to these stocks and only a handful of clubs can afford to put otter fence around their waters with a small amount of funding coming from the EA just doesnt make sense at all but then again thats what you get dealing with two govenment agencies that havent got a clue what the other is doing.
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Post by tommy1 on Jan 24, 2013 19:37:06 GMT
Good post mate...very enlightening
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Post by Liptugga on Jun 25, 2013 10:53:16 GMT
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